Game Discussion Thread

[Gloria]

Seriously, all of this praising for Perry and it goes to show how he has no jury management skills. It's just awful. All he has done is trying to shit on Luca's game because he knows very well that Luca played the superior game. And then all he does as well is repeat his same shit on every fucking thread. This cannot be the person we hand the win to. And it's not me being biased towards anyone but the way he's acting in some jury threads is just not even pleasant. And no, that's not including mine.

First post in jury. Hey!

[quincy]

Yeah, It is unbelievable how poor his jury skills are. And after a couple of posts, I thought he was good but you are right, he keeps repeating the same shit over and over and attacking Luca continuously.

What a trashy individual.

[quincy]

And Gloriia, I've missed you so much!! Glad to see you here!

[Gloria]

If he put all of his energy on maybe trying to brainwash all of the jurors into how good of a game he played instead of trashing Luca constantly I think he would nail this FTC. Too bad...

[Jessica]

I lol'ed at Luca taking credit for outing Perry and Tess' alliance. I think I got Tess to admit it at like... what, final eight? and used that information to help secure Wyatt going home.

He was good, I'll admit, but he's seriously overestimating his own role in things.

Yvette and I wanted to keep Tess loyal to us. If Perry and Tess hadn't had a deal, we wouldn't have booted Wyatt (in fact if I recall correctly the whole thing was our idea in the first place, since Vincent was pushing so hard for Tess to go), and if Perry hadn't gone after me at six, we'd have booted Vincent and kept Tess around for a final three, (which admittedly she would have betrayed anyway) but at that point we already knew we couldn't trust Perry, and neither of us wanted to risk keeping Tess around. Luca had absolutely zero to do with that decision making process for either Yvette or myself, so it's not at all like he dug himself out of a hole there - Tess was just a bigger fish to fry at that point.

[Gloria]

Honestly, I'd rather have him overestimating his role than have someone try to make up their roles in things they didn't have any control of.

[Gloria]

Also those questions. I think that Beau definitely wins most immature and annoying. It was literally impossible to talk to him when he was having his fits. We had to babysit his ass from day 1. What a freaking chore. And lowest IQ? I speak, write and read 3 different languages.

[Jessica]

Eh, Perry's doing that to a degree but here's nowhere near as egregious an offender as Vincent. If I had to guess I'd say that Vincent doesn't have a lot of FTC experience, he reeks of a guy who's sat on a lot of juries and has a vague idea of how finalists should talk, but seems to lack the practical knowledge.

I think the main difference between the two is that Perry's taking a heck of a lot of flak for "not making moves," when in reality there simply wasn't a good reason for him to any moves other than the ones he made. After all, the one time the guy stuck his neck out, he nearly got his head cut off for it, and only survived by sheer fluke. Fact of the matter is, I can't honestly see that making more moves would have been a better plan for him. I'd be pretty pissed off too.

Contrast that with Vincent and Luca, who both went around making a ton of deals that neither of them had any real intention of honouring. Luca straight up bailed on a bunch of allies that he claimed to be loyal to, (ditching out on the TC where Quincy went home, making no real effort to save Beau and Gloria except through having Vincent nag us ineffectually), and went out of his way to lie to me when there was no perceptible benefit to do so. I'd rather vote for someone who didn't make moves because they didn't need to than someone who screwed over a lot of people unnecessarily.

[Gloria]

But at the same time Quincy and I getting the boot was majorly benefitial for him because Quincy/Luca/I had a MASSIVE target from early on because people knew the 3 of us were tight. Even though I didn't agree with them voting out Hannah and them using the idol on Beau. I had no influence over any of that regardless. I tried to remain in the background as much as I could in the merge but Luca made bold moves that propelled him even further than us and by the time he was the only one that's when nobody bothered to make a move on him knowing he was a free agent. I think that's very smart of him.

My thing with Perry is that from what you've said and others have said he only really tried playing the game right there at the end. Why wait so late? While being on your shadows all game is a "vaid" strategy I can say that same thing about Wyatt who was on Tess' shadow all game and nobody bothered to make a move on him because of his non-threat status. Yes Luca did hide behind me but he was still branching out with other people. There's nothing wrong with that. With the big target on my back it was bound to happen that I would go so that's when his branching out came into play and netted him deals that moved him further into the endgame. Honestly I don't see how he could have played it any better. Last Napa standing.

At the end of the day Perry didn't make any moves why? Because he was never a power player in the game. He rarely took on that initiative to take control. Sure under the radar is valid but until what extent? Luca has fought and clawed his way from being on the bottom on Napa at the merge to being the LAST Napa standing in the game. Did he lie? yes. So did you. Did he make alliances that he had to break? So did you. Let's not get hypocritical here. For someone who is such an amazing and smart player like you it's a bit irritating to see you be so hard headed about Luca. I don't get it.

[Jessica]

Apr 6, 2013 2:53:26 GMT -5 Gloria said:

And lowest IQ? I speak, write and read 3 different languages.

I wouldn't worry about it. IQ tests only actually measure how good you are at taking IQ tests. And since people on both ends of the spectrum give answers that defy easy categorization, nobody with a basic knowledge of psychology actually attributes terribly much significance to the scores.

[Gloria]

Also I know Vincent and I've seen him make endgame quiet a few times. He just knows there's nothing for him to put out there but he's trying to put an effort I guess. But I know him very well outside the game and he knows damn well that he did nothing here. He's trying to fluff those questions and it's not even cute.

[Gloria]

When I think of someone winning a game. I want to think how did that player stand out? What moves did they make? And I can't say that Perry is a player that stood out. I fail to see how Perry's moves if any were better than Luca's.

Also these arguments about what if's are getting old. Let's work with the facts. FACT is Stephenie got voted out because Luca and Quincy were smart enough. We can all say what if Wyatt came online? But what if I came online to change my vote? It's the same thing. I find it ridiculous that we're looking here at what if's just to shit on a player. He made the best out of the situation. I don't see how that's bad at all.

[Gloria]

Also one question that stood out for me was Stephanie's about players who are idlers and players who are game changers.

I think just based off of that we can get a better picture on our final 3. And just from that as a base to judge them for me is enough on how well will they do in a game. I hate players that are sleepers. It's almost the same as being inactive.

[Jessica]

Apr 6, 2013 3:10:11 GMT -5 Gloria said:

Did he lie? yes. So did you. Did he make alliances that he had to break? So did you. Let's not get hypocritical here. For someone who is such an amazing and smart player like you it's a bit irritating to see you be so hard headed about Luca. I don't get it.

Actually, no. And not just for the tu quoque fallacy.

While I certainly lied, I did not seek out people and lie to them. I avoided it whenever possible, not because I'm staunchly against it, but because it's just bad strategy. People compare notes, and the only way to keep multiple lies going is to be lucky enough not to have anybody notice. That's not skill. Far as I'm concerned, intentionally lying and deceiving other people unnecessarily is the mark of an inferior player, and my entire strategy hinged on people being able to trust me despite me being threatening. Yes, there were times where things changed after I said certain things, and something that was true at the time became a lie, but it was never intentional. Keep in mind, I was honest even to Beau when I was voting him out, and if there was ever a situation to sugar-coat the truth, that was it. The only possible exception to this is the massive amount of lies that I fed Hannah during the final premerge TC and first merge round, but that was actually because Hannah and I essentially sat down and told each other, "Look, it's gonna be you or me, neither of us will rest until the other is gone," which I consider as probably the most refreshingly honest talk I had with any non-PW for this entire game.

As for making alliances only to break them? Absolutely not. That's worse than lying. I was pretty careful about who I made alliances with, for that exact reason. Anybody can lie and make multiple alliances that they fully intend to break. Heck, Phil Sheppard is capable of that.

In fact, if memory serves me correctly, I did not break a single alliance that was not broken by the other person first. On Cascade I had a six-person alliance that Vincent was very clearly betraying, so I made a counteralliance to foil him. Beyond that, I had no other alliances that went beyond the "let's not vote each other off just yet" phase until I offered you/Quincy/Luca a final six deal. I never intended to take it further than that, because I knew at that point I'd become a liability and there was no point asking you to barefacedly lie to me. My honoring that is what saved Luca from elimination at the final 11 - I told Tess point blank I would rather go home than betray my word to him, and I meant it. I had a final three deal with Yvette and Stephenie, so my actual plan was to have a you/me/Yvette/Steph/Luca/Quincy final six and see where it went. Tess replaced Steph after Steph left, and Wyatt was added as a fourth when it became apparent that you weren't trustworthy and couldn't be convinced that the all girl's alliance (which made less than zero sense) wasn't real. Quincy betrayed the final six deal by voting for me, while I tried to uphold it by getting you to idol him (by telling you the absolute truth about him being a target, by the by), so there went that. Around this point it became clear that Perry and Tess had a thing, which contravened the conditions of our final four agreement, so that meant that Tess and Wyatt had to go for my own safety. Perry tried offering me an all-Cascade final four to dissuade me from targetting Tess, which both of us knew was a lie, so that doesn't count. At that point I still had an agreement with Yvette and Luca, which I would absolutely have honoured even if it cost me the game.

So, yeah, no. I daresay I can judge Luca for doing that, because I managed to get along just fine without it despite fighting and clawing ten times harder than he ever had to.

[Gloria]

All hail Jessica then...